Homeless man dies after being set ablaze; Severe burns kill 'poor wretch' who was chased and doused with gasoline

Although I agree that this is an absolutely disgusting act, I wouldn't be so quick to judge the cause as violence in the media.

I have seen many violent movies and played a lot of violent games, but I never had the urge to set someone ablaze.

To Robert-384248 & jiraii,

The problem here is that we as a nation have become to compliant about violence as a whole.

What saddens me in all of this is the fact that our economy is in jeopardy and many people are living pay check to pay check. Who knows, we ourselves may become homeless and not by choice.

Will we become victims of violence because we have lost our jobs, our homes and our lives.

This is very sad and I hope that they catch this inhumane cretin and take him out of society.

We as a whole must stand up for those that can not, be a voice to those that do not have one.

I have seen way to much of people just walking away when people are screaming for help. I have put myself in harms way many times to stop violence. If everyone did this can you imagine what a better country we would/could be.

We are living in very sad times. We need to start paying it forward and help our fellow man.

i mostly agree with what "magnus" said,

except for one part " we ourselves may become homeless and not by choice."

who DOES become homeless by choice ?

I have seen many violent movies and played a lot of violent games, but I never had the urge to set someone ablaze.

Hmmm... interesting... I don't watch violent movies or play violent games and I have long list of people I'd like to torch. {evil grin}

who DOES become homeless by choice ?

Seriously, I've dealt with a multitude of homeless and most of them will tell you this is a life they chose... they just didn't want (or couldn't handle) the responsibility fo what most of us consider a "normal" life.

I agree with you Sarge, I hitchhiked all over the country in between high school and the navy. The older guys I met in Salvation Armies taught me how to hop freight trains. Back then you had to keep moving and homelesness was a choice. I recently worked in a downtown tattoo shop and got to know the street people. Most are there by choice. It's a shame they make easy targets for kids that are looking for a thrill. America has always been violent. National 24 hour news just makes it seem like it's getting worse.

Dijana,

Seriously, look at the replies by the two others after me. Have you ever taken the time to speak to a homeless person? I have and I can tell you this, there are those that don't want to be tied down by our gov. and have decided that they would much rather be homeless. That right there is a choice!

Most of them are childless, friendless and the final kicker...they have no family to speak of.

Fifteen or so years ago there was a story about a man living in Long Island NY, that begged for money on the streets of Manhattan, he was pulling in oh, about a 100k a year, tax free. He said he made more money begging than working. This man was featured because he had a mini mansion and several Mercedes in his garage, see his wife had a job so they were covered on that end. What he did was wrong but no one stopped him. There you go another choice.

Please take the time and speak to some homeless people, many are war vet's, abused woman, runaway children or abducted and afraid to go home. What does this say??? People make choices everyday and sometimes it is not the choice you or I would make but a choice none the less.

Our country is devoid of compassion. How sad. No one should die the way this man did.

It is so sad that the only thing you can say about such a horrible act is that it is the fault of the conservatives in this country.

Shame, Shame, Shame!!!

This isn't about that this about the way Kids are raised in America today. Nobody is held responsible for their behavior anymore. You see it in the way kids behave in school, in public they don't respect anything but what is in it for them. This is the kind of behavior you get when you let your kids be raised by MTV.

As I was reading this story, I said to myself, " Just wait and see, some fool liberal will blame this on heartless conservatives. " And here he is : Amir-594944! If the victim of this crime was truely mentally ill, 30 years ago, he would have been in a institution where he would have received food, medical care, and shelter. And oh yeah, Hooligans would not have been allowed to pour gasoline on him and set him on fire. But then, Liberals had this great idea called, "Deinstitutionalization ", where the mental Institutions of this country were emptied and the inmates set out to the streets to fend for themselves. A lot of what we call " bag ladies " fit into this category. So if any one deserves blame for the homelessness situation in America, its the liberals

I think someone should take a look at you ?? Shame on you!! insensitive is mild

ALan H:  your quote

Liberals had this great idea called, "Deinstitutionalization ", where the mental Institutions of this country were emptied and the inmates set out to the streets to fend for themselves

What is up with this new neo-con tactic of blaming progressives, democrats, liberals for conservative actions?  Where did you come to believe that the above is true?  It has been the agenda of the Reich wing to reduce funding for public health programs including mental health institutions.Rather, the Reich wing promotes pouring ever increasing amounts of our taxes into privately held prisons.  When there are no longer any public facilities for those suffering from mental illness, it's only a matter of time before they are incarcerated, increasing the bottom line and earning shareholder profits on the suffering of others.

The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners . . . 2.3 million  NY Times, 5.23.08

I hope for your sake that you never have to face anything like this in your life.  As for the man who was brutally murdered, this should be considered not only a hate crime, but an act of terrorism.  There should be absolutely no lenience shown to the perpetrator of this horrendous act.  Just because this man lived on the street does not make him anything less than a man.  Those who feel otherwise are delusional.

wilman... You idiot. This has nothing to do with China etc, etc. This is happening in our country. And what the hell does welfare and waterfront condos have to do with this story. This man was murdered on our streets like this and all you can babble about are condos and welfare. Go Back to Sleep

Posted in reply to amir's comments but apparently you are too stupid to follow this. 

I didn't follow it, either.  Next time hit "reply" under the post you're actually trying to reply to.

Wilman

What are you talking about? We are talking about some poor guy who got torched on the streets of LAX. Whatever does welfare or condos have to do with it?

Please go home to the asylum.

johnogrady56 good answer Bravo

Go get yourself a job where you make $250,000 and you can pay all the taxes you want to support the "needy, the "disenfrancised"  I love you guys who blabber about all the social programs and the "needy."  As long as you can close your eyes and let someone else pay all the taxes to pay for all of this, then that's fine...

Want to pay your fair share?  Flat across the board tax on everyone... 40% of your income whether you make $10,000 or $1,000,000.  You are then paying your fair share, and I am sure everyone would whine about that too.. 

While I agree with you on the flat tax rate, forty percent is too steep.  I would think ten percent of one's income would suffice.  The government, however, would keep the ten percent.  Good idea.  Spread the word. 

40% isn't even the lowest in Europe where everybody idolizes on their progressive system, most are over 60%

Must be one of the poor "disenfranchised."  When they catch him, he will get free legal counsel (on our dollar), where they will talk about his broken home, his violent upbringing.  "He never had a chance"   The mitigating circumstances (or the fact that he is a minor), will reduce his sentence...

Aah... life in America... where there is always a copout for personal responsibility...

Most likely the perpetrator came from a home that taught him to vilify the poor as lazy and subhuman.  Now which party would that most likely be?

Los Angeles, Mayor Villaraigosa...atrocities occur all over the nation, but here the feral cats and stray dogs are treated better than the homeless. I'm one paycheck away from homelessness, my shopping cart is chained to the condo garage entry, I'm seriously scared.

Here in lies the problem, accountability and responsibility.

We as a nation have become complacent about responsibility. For instance, I had a horribly dysfunctional family and that is why I am this way. I say BullSh*T, who has not had a hard life????

I know of many that have had a horrible upbringing, but if you looked at them today you'd never know, why? Because they chose to be better people.

It's called freewill folks, we all have it. We can either choose to do what this excuse for a human has done or we can choose to be better people. The choice is all your's, what will you do with your CHOICE?

I will tell you a true story. I was six months pregnant and out walking our dog in an open park. I noticed that there were two groups of boy's and some girls on both sides. Before I knew it a fight ensued, I chose to break up the fight all while these young girls were using their phone to film or take pictures of the fight.

What I had on my side was the fact that I was willing to get involved and stop this as other adults just watched. There were construction workers and other men there watching this and not one of them came to my aid..not like I needed it. I may be a petite woman but I have stopped many grown men from fighting on numerous occasions, instead of just standing by. What is wrong with this picture?, no one wants to get involved and that in of it self is WRONG!

What would cause such a fight where blood was shed??? I had both young men subdued. I had the perpetrators and asked them why. The answer was "he said some smack about my mom".  I told both young men that if they kept up this type of behavior they would end up in jail and become someones girlfriend.

I followed up with the school they attended and told them that they (the school) had a responsibility to ensure the safety of the students of their school until they reached home. This was unacceptable that the school would allow this to occur just a block from the school. I got an answer from the school stating that they knew there would be a fight and that is why they sent the boys in two different directions to stop it. This fight occurred a block away from the school.

Give me a break, if they knew about it why even allow it to occur in the first place? Can we say Chaperon?

Is this how we are raising the next generation? I asked the school to give the parents of these two boys my phone number and for them to call me. The answer to that 60 thousand dollar question...neither parents could be bothered by this. Whom do we blame?, parents that are working two jobs a piece or the school for not instilling the fundamentals of life? The basic principles of life, where violence is wrong and sometimes we must turn the other cheek and just walk away. Words may hurt but it need not lead us to violence.

What about the girls that got such a kick out of taking pictures and filmed the fight? Shame on all of them. We need to teach compassion and empathy in our schools. In the end it is up to parents to instill what is right or wrong, anything short of that is a huge injustice to our children. I do believe it does take a village to raise children.

All I ask is this, if you wittnessed something atrocious would you just walk away or would you at least make a phone call????

Could this horrible crime be the logical extension of the vilification of the poor, the homeless and the mentally challenged?  NO.

It appears that the point that Wilman is attempting to make is that his hatred of having to pay for, "Medicare and Medicade, Social Security, homeless shelters, welfare, food stamps, public housing, free education..." has driven him to the point where this crime is somehow justified.  No

Amir is making sense here.  The vile hate expressed by those generally on the "every man for himself, pull yourself up" bandwagon, has ended in this cruelest of acts against another human being. No  

are those that will read this story and say "Good, another bum off the street".  It's a sad commentary on who we are as a people. I am sure there are, but I am not one of them.  My only comment in terms of Amir is that you can not throw money at this and make it better.  I am sure it is not a Regan conservative who set this man on fire.  In that neighborhood it has nothing to do with every man for himself... 

All three of you, wilman, Ken and amir, are correct, but in different ways.

We live in a society that promotes the idea that everyone can get ahead if they take advantage of the opportunities given them. The corollary to that, which is not necessarily true vis-a-vis the real world, is everyone can fail through their own efforts as well. Reagan did, indeed, rearticulate this to make the homeless into a social problem and promote a hands-off, "survival of the fittest" mentality, though he was not the only one, just the most visible. And yes, crimes like this are an unfortunate extension of the argument-- in fact, it is noted in the article that the homeless are, in many cases, looked on as less than human.

But solving this problem is not merely a matter of "throwing money at it"... what is needed, in my opinion, is a re-evaluation of the system, and changes in the structure of social values that Americans espouse. There is no reason, in one of the most affluent and rich societies on the planet (current situation aside), that people should not be given the care and help that they need.

Everyone talks about their "rights" as an American citizen-- few also take into consideration their "responsibilities", both individual, and corporate (meant in this case as a member of the community).

Please carry the disenfranchised banner a little higher. The government dole said they could assist me and offered me an eleven dollar a month stipend. I work for the government (my boot straps are breaking from my pulling).  I pay the equivalent of a Juguar lease in taxes every month, If the gov agrees, I would love to give it directly to a homeless person every month. I'll be in my same predicament but the only QOL for me would be in the giving. Uncle Sam, I'd even let you select a person for me.

I guess this poor guy deserved what happened to him from a lot of the rants this morning. No Get to basics, who closed down the mental hospitals and institutions?

The actual basics are that a homeless man was set on fire by someone.  It has nothing to do with money.  It has nothing to do with greed.  It has nothing to do with religion.  It is a crime.  An individual is responsible and should be held accountable.  Period end of story....

Sinaphobia : The fear of imaginary crimes.
This doesn't got anything to do with God or Satan. A man did this to a man, there is no imaginary control or imaginary power here. A twisted human being did this, and needs to have the same in return.

i never mentioned satan...and i am sure this most unforunate homeless person was not imagining the pain he felt while burning to death...

Warm was my bed, but I was way hungry so was the almost homless person that I took in several years ago. If either one of us hears anything like it in our proximity we jump to action because inaction is probably what happened to the burned guy. I am so saddened by the loss. Somewhere, someone must have cared for him.

Marie: I do not want to be insensitive, but a Psychiatric Hospital can not fix this kind of person, no more than castrating rapists changes them at all.  There are not many "Psychiatric Hospitals" who will care for any one who is not loaded with insurance/and or money.

I'm with ya, and would willingly donate a dollar for a bullet.

I agree that he knew what what he was doing and my first mind say's "I'm with you Chuck" but more reinforcements are needed on CA death-row, one of them took thier own life, so there's an opening. I do believe he'll get of with a stern reprimand and maybe some bogus community service. This is CA not TX  

kitty kitty...from my heart to your heart thank you for your most kind and thoughtful words...

I hear you loud and clear..I went to church all my young years..I too stopped going about 10 years ago for the same reason, I have a neighbor who goes to church every sunday and she has no vechicle but they don't miss getting her for Sunday's Money but Never do they come to help her get around, Myself and 2 other neighbors do that and we don't go to this woman's church, says alot about her church !! It's very clear most people are all about money today, how much, how easy they can get it and so forth. While people suffer like this gentlemen on the street, whether he choose to be there or was placed there by circumstance should not be a reason for anyone to kill him..No Human deserves that!! May all of you who think you are above being from a paycheck away to the same life not suffer when it happens to you !!

Kat & Kitty, I'm with you. I have given rides to strangers though I'm not in a safe place, and I know who protected me.  I mourn the victims death;  it relates to this thread. People are down on me being a do-gooder in a city where no one cares and as I have nothing anyway (especially land). I see people sruggling everyday and I feel so weighted as I go to work and pay extra taxes against a mistake for which I cannot be forgiven.  My job even has some questions about my volunteering at the spinal injury ward of the VA hosp in my area. I stopped my volunteer efforts, I need this job.

Kat and Bridgette:  Sometimes the number of years we have lived tempers our thoughts and priorities.  I would love to live close to both of you ladies and the three of us could help each other and others too.  I appreciate the fact both of you seem to understand the point I was trying to get across - seems some do not, but that is okay too.  I believe IF the churches would do as they did a long time ago, there would not be so many homeless people on the streets to start with.  Our government closes their eyes to this terrible situation, and too many mentally ill people are in prisons.  This man suffered in a way I can not imagine - one has to wonder what caused the person responsible to do such a horrible thing?  That person has to be mentally ill - I can not even stand to see an animal suffer, much less a human being.  Our voices are in the minority, but that is okay too.  Some people on the street might be there by choice, but I do not believe that.  Life has not been kind and they are without the means to take care of themselves any other way.  To look at them and criticize is unforgivable - they need our help not our anger. In these "discussions" on newsvine, I see a lot of anger and division in our people.  Their anger should be directed toward the government, and not each other.  I could never be angry with a homeless person, and would not be guilty of judging them.

You are totally right in your comments John.

John

Your story sounds all too true, nobody wants to get involved. People seem to be scared because they're scared. The indifference of store staff might have induced me to lay there moaning until the paramedics arrived and hauled me away on a gurney. The real fun would begin in court. Indifference would have its price.

John,

  I am sorry you experienced this, I too have seen things of this nature, Shameful, I hope you heal fast. There are still some good people out there they are just few and far now days.

Thanks for the kind words, but I didn't mention the grocery story for a sympathy vote, The story of this homeless man hurts every fiber of my being, but it reminds me of a dear friend I lost last year.  He was confined to a wheelchair and his scooter, everyday he's spend the entire day at the pool near the apartment complex he lived in.   We were suppose to go out to celebrate his birthday which was last month, I called to tell him I'd be late, but didn't get an answer, he didn't have an answering machine so I couldn't leave a message.  I figured he was at the pool.  The next day I called...still no answer,  I called later that evening, no answer.  Tried the next day...no answer.  Now keep in mind he spent everyday by the pool, from the time it opened to the time in closed.  He wasn't hard to miss because he was the only well tanned person in a wheelchair.  Everybody in the complex knew him.  Tried calling the next day....no answer.  Finally I got a phone call.  He'd been dead for a week?  After seeing him everyday at the pool, no one asked where he was.  No one asked had they seen him.  No thought to check on him.  He died alone in his apartment,and why?  Because no one cared enough to check. and I'm angry at myself for not taking the time to get there.  We get so wrapped up in our own lives we forget about others.  This homeless man didn't bother anyone, neither did my friend.  But they're both gone.  One because he was murdered and the other because he was overlooked.  What kind of world have we become?  Look around and count how many people you see the rest of the day with the slightest hint of a smile on their face, how many times do you hear someone say excuse me when they pass in front of you or in my case knock you down.    Do you hear kids address adults as Mr. & Mrs. anymore?  No one knows the circumstances behind this homeless man, but he's dead simply because he was homeless.  My friend died of natural causes, but he'd been dead and alone for a week because No one in that apartment complex cared enough to check on him.  And damned if I don't still have his birthday present, which of all things was an answering machine.  We've got to do better folks.  Check on your neighbor, call someone you haven't spoken to in awhile.  There's no gaurantee there's going to be a tomorrow.    You can't going around killing someone because they're homeless, ethnic, gay or whatever.  This man's murderer is still out there, yesterday it was someone homeless.  Who's next?

Your words are a testimony that can be echoed all around the nation. I found a lady talking to my mechanic underground at the condo complex where I reside. We had a very interesting conversation. She has lived here twelve years and I for the last five, she said she had never even seen me and I had never seen her. She lives on the floor above me and her neighbor, a single, black, gas company worker with a car and a motorcycle underground was found dead in her bathroom. She had a seizure whilst on the toilet and had just fallen there. She was there for seventeen days and her job had left a note of concern on her door (though I do wonder how they got into this building). Now, daily we are reminded to wait as the security gate closes before driving off from the garage, thereby preventing thieves or killers from entering before the gate fully closes and dutifully I do this, protect these unknow neighbors property and maybe their lives. But I know not one, you see I lease, owners don't actually prefer to mix with leasees. I overheard that with my own ears from a woman at an open-house in the common area on the floor below me. It appears she was talking to a member (former) of a team called the Avengers (?) who was moving in. Well, I'm clean and neat and quiet, so....Why cause waves.   (By the way it was the size and volume of the flies that alerted me that something was wrong somewhere)

I 100% believe this happened.  And it should not.  Not here, but J.W. pretty much put it in perspective to so many of those people that just stood there.  Get involved and get sued.  Sorry John but until laws and other random things change people just are too afraid they'll be sued.  I truly am sorry but let me ask you this, in your heart of hearts would you have sued if someone came to help you and instead accidently caused you more injury? 

Truthfully?  No.  Because of the Good Samaritan law. How can you sue someone who was only trying to help? I'd rather someone try, than let me just lie there.
But that's just me.

I have said earlier what has caused the situation in this country you call "me and only me".  Go on and read it. Someone defended the "conservatives" and claimed Reagan was not the reason for the change. I mentioned Reagan for the beginning of the drop in regulations, rise in greed and corruption, and extreme individualism and the birth of the Corporate America where the common man does not count.

P.S.  although I like "amir which means the commander as a male name" I am a woman who has witnessed tremendous deterioration in the rights of ordinary citizens, particularly women. Is there any hope for change to a more humane society as it used to be 50 years ago?

Are you for real?

We are horrible?

What did "we" do? 

Is there any individual responsibly or common sense left in this country?

Why is it society's fault when one person kills another? 

Why do we have to come up with some reason or excuse for individual behaviour?

Is religion perfect?  Your "Sodomites" have existed in your religious leaders for years...

Give me a break.......... 

MajKarma

There , now you got yourself all worked up. Take a deep breath and relax. Do something you find enjoyable. Go read some bible stuff, go shoot something with your gun. And then top it off by getting together with some of your bible reading friend's and go beat up some gay people or some darky's. Then GOD will be happy and love you even more.

What you propose sounds like going back to the 50's where things were more humane...except to the darkys who could never hide and the gays who were able to hide.  

ray-421884

"MajKarma

There , now you got yourself all worked up. Take a deep breath and relax. Do something you find enjoyable. Go read some bible stuff, go shoot something with your gun. And then top it off by getting together with some of your bible reading friend's and go beat up some gay people or some darky's. Then GOD will be happy and love you even more."

Ray: Your comment above is part of the hatred and lack of understanding of others that fuel horrendous crimes in this country.  Why would you be so insulting to a very frustrated, and apparently older person??? While I do not agree politics is a part of this discussion, there is still no reason for you to insult those of us who are christians, and do the best we can to live as God teaches.  The intolerance shown in some of these posts is exactly the same type of thing that kills innocent people in this country every day for one stupid reason or another.  As humans we are ALL flawed - so why be so hard on someone you don't particularly agree with??  With due respect to you.

Kittykitty

 Just what did I say that seemed to go against Majkarma's belief's as they were stated? This is a person who seem's to think it is fitting to have a Black Man to represent this godless nation of mongrel's. Just what did Maj mean by that and the other statement's. Maybe I misunderstood. If so I apologize but I think I understood all that was said.

Ray: I think this individual, a veteran, and elder is not "wanting" a black man to represent this country - but due to the deteriorated condition of the moral values in this country, and all the violence and hatred, perhaps America deserves that. 

I was sad that you made such a reply as follows: "And then top it off by getting together with some of your bible reading friend's and go beat up some gay people or some darky's. Then GOD will be happy and love you even more."

This is the part of the statement I felt was uncalled for.  God is NEVER happy when we hurt others.  I agreed with your posts prior to this statement, and was surprised you cast "Christians" in this kind of light.  OR, maybe perhaps I misunderstood your post.  The division of our people and the anger exhibited in nearly all of newsvine is a bad sign for this country.  We will be easily destroyed by our own division.  Post with respect to every one here.

Kittykitty

So you are agreeing that a black man as president is due to the deteriated moral condition's of this country as if this is punishment for us. As far as the GOD reference I was being sarcastic. Christianity as all religion's is good at it's core but it has been twisted by some of the follower's. I personaly know Christian's that have no reservation's about there hate for black's and gay's. And I really couldn't see Jesus condoneing this.

ray-421884: 
 I am NOT agreeing that a black man as president is due to the deteriorated moral conditions of this country - or that it is punishment for us. If you READ my statement, I stated what I think the person that made this statement was thinking at the time. NOT what I think. I seem to be unable to communicate with you. 
 
Let me say this in closing.  I DO NOT HATE black people nor gay people.  I can honestly say this, BECAUSE, I do NOT think God makes mistakes.  Furthermore, it is NOT my place to judge any one for any reason.  I would simply ask that you not class all Christians in the same group nor label individuals. 

JPF..How true you are !!

this is very moving and a well  thought  out piece> Kudos for a well written item

but there those conservatives that think they are better than other people and that all poor people ought be rounded up and placed on poor farms as in the early years of this century.

MajKarma

take a look at bigited outlook

I don't know if the victim was innocent or harmless, but he didn't deserve to be killed. I don't believe even killers deserve to be killed. But that's just me. The eye for an eye mentality evades me. I mourn for the victim and even more for this nation. By the way someone let me know when they re-enact poor farms, my safety net has been shredded.

THANK YOU JPF for not criticizing those who may have different opinions than yourself.  For my part, I totally agree with you - my respects.